The War In Iraq

[noa1116]

how does it make you feel when you see the iraqis killing american hostages, and how do you feel about the prison scandal?

[ojosclaros]

I think it is upsetting to most Americans to see our people being killed in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter.

As for the prison scandal, its a bunch of bull. I'm not sure what people expect during a war. I guess everyone has grown up living in Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Hey that's it!! Now I have the solution to get the answers from those dirtbags during interrogations. There's no need to do any sleep deprovation, harrassment, and god forbid the pulling out of fingernails or toe nails. We can tell them that Mr. Rogers said that its not nice to lie and kill, and that they must tell the truth to the questions that they are being asked. If that doesn't convince the Iraqii thugs, we'll send them to time out!!

Come on people, let's have a reality check here. We're fighting a war over there, not dealing with a kindergarten discipline problem.

[elek_trik]

Originally posted by ojosclaros@May 16 2004, 08:23 AM
I think it is upsetting to most Americans to see our people being killed in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter.

As for the prison scandal, its a bunch of bull. I'm not sure what people expect during a war. I guess everyone has grown up living in Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Hey that's it!! Now I have the solution to get the answers from those dirtbags during interrogations. There's no need to do any sleep deprovation, harrassment, and god forbid the pulling out of fingernails or toe nails. We can tell them that Mr. Rogers said that its not nice to lie and kill, and that they must tell the truth to the questions that they are being asked. If that doesn't convince the Iraqii thugs, we'll send them to time out!!

Come on people, let's have a reality check here. We're fighting a war over there, not dealing with a kindergarten discipline problem.
So basically, you want to throw out all the standards and practices that the Geneva Convention (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm) outlines?

C'mon man, its war, yes.... but those prisoners, no matter how much as SOME of them (not all) might want to kill us, they're people too.

[Eagletx21]

The Geneva Convention does not pertain to Terrorist and in this case all the prisoners in the Iraqi prison where terrorist of some sort. Why? Because there is no longer an Iraqi army fighting against the U.S. the U.S. has control over the Iraqi army and is training them. These soldiers are rebels or terrorist that where caught fighting against the U.S. or some other allies of the U.S. As we all might remember a large number of Iraqi soldiers that where fighting against the U.S when the war started where all released. Now anyone in the Iraqi prisons are terrorist of some sort. The Geneva Convention doest no protect terrorist it only protects soldiers in Uniform.

[BlueCollar]

An eye for an eye has always worked well.

[elek_trik]

Originally posted by BlueCollar@May 27 2004, 02:17 PM
An eye for an eye has always worked well.
But it doesn't solve anything, and for the most part, it perpetuates the situation...

and Eagletx21, you're right, I stand corrected (if that was the case), but i'm not too sure, are you really certain that they're not prisoners of war, or are they just prisoners? But listen, my main idea was that there is no justification for what those soldiers did... I understand those prisoners were criminals, but they have their human rights.

[BlueCollar]

Forget the rules of engagement, forget the geniva convention, all that does not apply with these animals. Capture them and cut their heads of on tv. Sooner or later they'll get the picture.
By pampering them and feeling sorry for them is only making them (the prisoners) and the other idiots feerless. I know they're already feerless but watching their buddies get their heads chopped off on tv will eventually strike a fear chord inside. Much better than placing underwear on their heads. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>?</span>

[elek_trik]

congrats, you sound just like a terrorist, because thats exactly what they say about us too

[noa1116]

Yea he does sound like a terroist but if that is what its going to take for them to stop killing people (not only americans) then I think hes right. These people burnt american civilians alive then dragged there bodies through there street and hung them on bridges as if they where animals then they cut off another america civilians head on national telivision didnt they have rights too? Now they are kidnapping any foreign person and violating there human rights by putting swords and knifes on there necks on national telivision does that sound like someone who believes in human rights? Remember the people in that jail arnt there for a petty crime there there because they are terroist they have american blood on there hands and if they are being humiliated well thats less then they deserve. Like I said before in the state of Texas if you are convicted of a murder you will get the death penalty, so why is it that terroist get pampered for killing americans? Thats all I got to say for now thanks for your time.

[BlueCollar]

Originally posted by noa1116@May 28 2004, 01:38 AM
Yea he does sound like a terroist but if that is what its going to take for them to stop killing people (not only americans) then I think hes right. These people burnt american civilians alive then dragged there bodies through there street and hung them on bridges as if they where animals then they cut off another america civilians head on national telivision didnt they have rights too? Now they are kidnapping any foreign person and violating there human rights by putting swords and knifes on there necks on national telivision does that sound like someone who believes in human rights? Remember the people in that jail arnt there for a petty crime there there because they are terroist they have american blood on there hands and if they are being humiliated well thats less then they deserve. Like I said before in the state of Texas if you are convicted of a murder you will get the death penalty, so why is it that terroist get pampered for killing americans? Thats all I got to say for now thanks for your time.
WELL SAID noa, and thats double for me.

[elek_trik]

I'll level with you guys... to be honest, I'm actually quite apathetic to the situation since it started, even though i've been arguing against you're point of view... I could really care less... I even think eye for an eye IS suitable, but only under certain circumstances.... but I KNOW that if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't want to be treated that way, because first and foremost, they are people as well.

/is referring to the prisoner abuse

[Eagletx21]

What's wrong about sounding like a terrorist? After all we have to fight fire with fire to get rid of it. That is how the U.S. and all other nations that are against terrorist should fight. That means take no prisoners kill all terrorist the same way they want to kill us and have succeeded in doing so several times we can do the same. They need to learn a lesson. We might not be able to stop them from forming terrorist groups and recruiting more people into their organizations they have. Yet we can scare them and show them what will happen if they continue with there treats and attacks. We must take a stand. Not just the U.S but also every non-Muslim country that is against terrorism. Lets not forget we have terrorist living in this nation. Even after all the crap these people do we still have room in our hearts to fill sorry for them? Hello wake up Terrorist are KILLERS that are after us that means you me him or her everyone who doesn’t think or act like them.

:ph34r:

[elek_trik]

Originally posted by Eagletx21@May 28 2004, 08:23 PM
What's wrong about sounding like a terrorist? After all we have to fight fire with fire to get rid of it. That is how the U.S. and all other nations that are against terrorist should fight. That means take no prisoners kill all terrorist the same way they want to kill us and have succeeded in doing so several times we can do the same. They need to learn a lesson. We might not be able to stop them from forming terrorist groups and recruiting more people into their organizations they have. Yet we can scare them and show them what will happen if they continue with there treats and attacks. We must take a stand. Not just the U.S but also every non-Muslim country that is against terrorism. Lets not forget we have terrorist living in this nation. Even after all the crap these people do we still have room in our hearts to fill sorry for them? Hello wake up Terrorist are KILLERS that are after us that means you me him or her everyone who doesn’t think or act like them.

:ph34r:
I agree to an extent, but i'm not talking about the terrorists, I'm talking about people in general

[BlueCollar]

OMG, I just the video where the prisoner gets his head cut off by terrorists. I had seen a picture but not the video. Its obsolutely horrifying. Lets just nuke iraq and get it over with.

[throthrem]

hmm

[throthrem]

Originally posted by noa1116@May 28 2004, 01:38 AM
Yea he does sound like a terroist but if that is what its going to take for them to stop killing people (not only americans) then I think hes right. These people burnt american civilians alive then dragged there bodies through there street and hung them on bridges as if they where animals then they cut off another america civilians head on national telivision didnt they have rights too? Now they are kidnapping any foreign person and violating there human rights by putting swords and knifes on there necks on national telivision does that sound like someone who believes in human rights? Remember the people in that jail arnt there for a petty crime there there because they are terroist they have american blood on there hands and if they are being humiliated well thats less then they deserve. Like I said before in the state of Texas if you are convicted of a murder you will get the death penalty, so why is it that terroist get pampered for killing americans? Thats all I got to say for now thanks for your time.
Our soldiers' idea of justice or mercy, during the Occupation, should be based on an American ideal. Whether those Iraqis responsible for cruelty to American soldiers and civilians believe in our idea of justice is irrelevant.

[kurtmasur]

Originally posted by BlueCollar@Jun 2 2004, 11:01 AM
OMG, I just the video where the prisoner gets his head cut off by terrorists. I had seen a picture but not the video. Its obsolutely horrifying. Lets just nuke iraq and get it over with.
Aside from you, BlueCollar, has anybody else seen this video? Yes, it might appear horrifying, but...

WHERE IS THE BLOOD??? When they saw off his head, and when they lift his head up as a trophy, there is no blood to be seen. Not even a teeny bit dripping. And there still isn't any when they place the head over his body.

Take a sharp pointy object and give yourself a gentle poke. What happens? You bleed, and you even need a bandaid. Heck, my CAT causes me to bleed when he scratches hard enough. And these are just minor cuts! This is nothing compared to a beheading! A BEHEADING!

There should be a major gush of blood coming out from the neck. The perpetrators should have their clothes stained in blood too, and the floor should be a big RED mess. (Heck, isn't it funny that a beheading in the video game Mortal Kombat actually HAS blood splashing out, but not the Berg video?).

I think that the story of decapitating Berg alive is a bunch of bull by whoever staged it.

In any case, I think Berg was already dead by the time they cut his head off. Think about it, when a person dies, the blood stops circulating and yields to the force of gravity. This means that a dead person's blood settles to the bottom of the body, just like the milk we put in our cereal settles to the bottom of the bowl (sorry for the analogy). If you leave a corpse lying face up on its back, naturally the blood will settle along the back. If you leave the corpse in a standing position or sitting position, the blood will settle in its lower half from the waist down. And since they had Berg's body in a sitting position, all of his blood was in the lower half of his body, and absolutely no blood was in his upper part, which includes the neck.

I know this because I have witnessed autopsies myself during a visit to a forensic center. In a forensic center, they always cut open the bodies from the chest. Because all of the bodies have been lying on their backs face up, all of the blood is concentrated towards the back, and absolutely NO drop of blood is seen when they cut through the chest. At one point before cutting the bodies open, they turn the bodies to the side to get a snapshot of the backside, and you can see a LARGE bruise across the entire back, from all of the blood concentrated there.
But hey, don't just take my word for it. Research this on the Internet. Heck, ask the local morticians, Fito Barrera or Rito Valdez, about this topic and they will confirm this. I am confident that they too will agree that Nick Berg was
already dead by the time he was beheaded if they see the video (assuming they haven't watched it).

Why they would do this is beyond me, but several theories abound.

Ya'll should check out this link:
http://aztlan.net/fake_video.htm

In addition, I encourage you to do a google search on this topic. You'll find I am not the only person who doesn't buy this Berg beheading story. I have my own personal theories about this, but I'd have to make another post to discuss this.

Anyways, I would like to know if ya'll think (ie. do you agree with me or not?).